Financial Planners vs Estate Planning Attorneys: Who Should You Consult and When?

[00:00:00] Narrator: You are listening to the Legacy Talk Podcast hosted by James A. Jones, attorney at law and founder of sound legacy law, PLLC in Tacoma. Attorney Jones is here to talk about how to best protect your family assets and well, pulling stories from his more than 20 years of helping families and business owners protect their assets, create their estate plans, preserve their wealth and plan for the future.

[00:00:32] Nobody wants to think about estate planning, but life has a way of sneaking up on you and at any moment, something unexpected could happen that will leave you regretting not having acted sooner. So join attorney James A. Jones in the Legacy Talk podcast and together learn how to plan for your future today and have peace of mind tomorrow.

[00:00:51] Atty. James Jones: Welcome to Legacy Talk. I’m your host, James Jones. I’m an estate planning attorney from Tacoma, Washington. I’ve been [00:01:00] practicing for over 20 years, and my main practice areas are estate planning, probate, and estate administration.

[00:01:07] On Legacy Talk, we discuss topics surrounding families and estates. Estate planning is often a confusing and complicated topic, but my goal with this podcast is to make it accessible and understandable for those who need it.

[00:01:20] So if this is something that interests you, please click the subscribe button and like this episode so that you can follow along as we break down the barriers to estate planning. I’m excited to get to today’s episode.

[00:01:31] Today’s topic is, Financial Planners Versus State Planning Attorneys. Who Should You Consult And When?

[00:01:38] Because just like working with a professional for your estate planning is important. To handle scenarios that arise with your family in a state is just as critical to work with an experienced financial advisor for your long term financial health and planning.

[00:01:52] So on today’s show, we’re talking about financial planners versus state planning attorneys who should you consult and when? [00:02:00] So let’s get to it.

[00:02:00] This is an estate planning podcast, those of you who have listened for the first 18 or so episodes know that we talk about issues regarding estate planning, wills, trusts, from attorney’s perspective, right? Cause I’m an attorney, but just as a state planning is an important thing for everyone to have, having an experienced financial planner as part of your advisory team is essential.

[00:02:24] You work with an attorney to get the key documents and strategies regarding the distribution and management of your estate together for when you’re incapacitated, for when you pass away. At your death, right? You work with a financial advisor to enhance your financial literacy, plan for retirement and preserve your wealth.

[00:02:45] So, today we’ll be discussing the role of a financial advisor in your estate plan and your overall financial health. We’re doing the first today on today’s episode of Legacy Talk. It’s our first actual guest.

[00:02:58] So, we’re joined today by [00:03:00] Melissa Cournyer of Convergent Wealth Partners in Gig Harbor, Washington. Melissa is an excellent financial advisor. Melissa and I have been working together for many years to help our clients achieve their financial and estate planning goals.

[00:03:15] So, I’m excited to have her on today’s episode to give us the background and some insight as to when it’s good to talk to financial advisors and what they can offer and why it’s such an important plan and role to have in their state plan.

[00:03:30] So today we’re talking to Melissa Cournyer. She’s joined us now about the role of a financial advisor and the benefits associated with it. But first let’s get to know Melissa. So welcome to the show, Melissa. Thanks for being here. Tell us a little bit about yourself to sort of give us an introduction.

[00:03:47] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah. Hi, James. I’m glad to be here. I have been in the financial services industry for about 19 years now. I was born and raised in the Pacific Northwest. I graduated from the [00:04:00] University of Washington. I now live in Gig Harbor, which is a beautiful little city. If people don’t know, kind of by Tacoma. And I’m married and have a dog and two cats.

[00:04:10] Atty. James Jones: Nice. Well, good. So, what led you into a career in financial planning, becoming a financial advisor?

[00:04:18] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah, I think it was really just seeing how short sighted, maybe a lot of folks have been in their planning. I think when you really start to look at the planning that’s involved in other careers or other goals that people have, a lot of folks leave financial planning out of it.

[00:04:37] Unfortunately, they just magically decide, Hey, I’m going to retire one day and then kind of flip the switch. And then they think about it right then and there, which is absolutely not the way that we’re wanting folks to think about it.

[00:04:50] So, that I think really led me to be able to see that folks could do a lot better with their goals and their planning and what retirement really looked [00:05:00] like for them.

[00:05:01] Also, folks are living longer, right? And so, financial planning has taken a whole different meaning, realistically, you know, even 10, 15 years ago. You know, when you thought of living till 65, people thought, Oh, I’m not going to live that long after that or what does that mean?

[00:05:18] Now, it’s Hey, I could live 20, 30 years after that. And what does that look like? What does my quality of life look like? What do I want it to look like? So, there’s a lot of planning that goes into that.

[00:05:30] Atty. James Jones: Yeah, that’s right. That’s yes. It’s super interesting, right? Because I have the same issues just being in a state planning attorney as people put this stuff off. It’s like, it’s important, but it’s not urgent, a lot of time, yours is often much more urgent to start young than my stuff is.

[00:05:45] But it’s kind of the same thoughts like, well, I can do it myself or I’ll be okay, or we’ll deal with it later. And all of a sudden we’re caught up at the last minute. We don’t know what’s going on. Right? We don’t, we’re not protected.

[00:05:56] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah, right at the end. And that’s not the way that you want to have your plan. I mean, you [00:06:00] plan a lot of things in life, right? You plan when you get married, you financially, you plan when you buy a house, financially, you plan when you have kids, right?

[00:06:08] So planning to retire should be a pretty natural thing for most folks, but they kind of, you know, they put it on the back burner, unfortunately.

[00:06:17] Atty. James Jones: Right. Yeah. Well, I’m excited that you’re here. I’m really grateful that we can have this discussion because I think it’s important and I think that we’re on the same plane here as far as getting people to look at these important topics and these important things.

[00:06:30] So, today I’ve got a bunch of questions that I’m going to ask you, Melissa, that basically will guide our discussion as far as the benefit that people get from working with financial planners, having their plan done.

[00:06:42] And so, we’ll get to the first question, which is basically, you know, kind of piggybacking on what you just talked about. Like, many people believe that they can handle their finances independently. What would you say to someone that thinks they don’t need a financial advisor? And how could a financial health check, like, sort of, [00:07:00] valuation help them or benefit them?

[00:07:02] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah, well, people work so hard at their jobs, right? Their regular jobs when they’re working and they’re busy, right? Life is busy, they’re busy raising kids and doing everything that comes with that as well. So, a lot of the times don’t have the time to do the job of a financial planner. That’s why we’re here, to advise, right? It’s a full time job for us.

[00:07:23] So, that’s how we look at it and most folks don’t want to come home after a long day of working and whatever their career is, and then sit down and study on how they’re going to handle retirement and handle their finances and do their whole plan.

[00:07:40] So yeah, absolutely, it’s a full time job and we treat it as such. And for folks that don’t necessarily think they need one or want one, I would just say, get a checkup on what you have right now. We’ll give you a true gauge as to where you’re at.

[00:07:54] We’ll do a full review with what you have and maybe anything that’s lacking or missing, or maybe [00:08:00] stuff that you just haven’t thought about, because, we have extra training, obviously we have licenses and a lot of technology now that can really help us to quickly decide if someone is going to need a lot of help or if they’re doing okay on their own too.

[00:08:15] Atty. James Jones: Right. And in that kind of a strategy session, do you focus on, like, financial goals that they have? What are some common mistakes that people make when they’re setting their goals as far as their financial outlook going forward?

[00:08:29] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah, a lot of mistakes that I see is maybe not taking into account longevity. Like we’ve kind of discussed is longevity and maybe the lifestyle that they’re going to want to need right? The big topic obviously right now is inflation, right? What’s worth a hundred thousand dollars?

[00:08:46] You know in income right now is not going to be worth that in five ten years. So, those are the big mistakes that we see folks making is, you know, just not believing they’re going to live long enough or, you know, what [00:09:00] inflation means, how much a dollar is going to be worth in the future.

[00:09:03] And I think that those are really important to take into account because you’re going to have a huge shortfall. We obviously, we talk about social security and where they’re at there, but most folks now don’t have guaranteed pensions and so having that nest egg that they’ve saved their whole lifetime or their whole career time for and how to best utilize that and what that looks like down the road is really what we would be planning on.

[00:09:30] Atty. James Jones: Right. Yeah, I just met with a client yesterday who’s a trustee of a trust and he’s managing a, it’s not a ton of money, but it’s some money for a guy. And the guy’s kind of not wanting him to invest any of the money.

[00:09:42] He’s really worried about it, like, well, every day it’s sitting in the bank, you’re losing money because we’re inflation is going through the roof or you’re losing money by just letting it sit in the bank account. Right?

[00:09:51] Melissa Cournyer: Exactly. I mean, that’s the big issue. Again, that’s the hot button that we talk about right now and that’s what we’re seeing is you can’t just sit back and let [00:10:00] it sit there in the bank. We call that in our industry lazy money, right when it’s not earning anything especially with the stock market doing as well as it’s done the past few years, right? Since, ’08 ’09, we’ve had this huge booming stock market.

[00:10:15] So, we want to make sure that our folks that are retired just now retiring or planning on retirement that they’re able to take advantage of that long term growth because you can’t get that interest in the bank that is needed to be able to keep up with the rising costs anymore.

[00:10:30] Atty. James Jones: Right. And that’s the kind of perspective that you would basically give someone, right? Because in working with a long term plan, you’ve seen these ups and downs, you’ve been doing this about 20 years.

[00:10:40] You can help people navigate that and navigate the ups, the downs, the uncertainties with regard to their finances going forward, right?

[00:10:48] Melissa Cournyer: Absolutely. And we really look at risk level, right? So once we get closer to retirement, we’re looking at the risk of what they have of their portfolio, if there are any other assets. And so that really dictates [00:11:00] where they’re going to be at as far as their asset structure.

[00:11:04] I would also say that, you know, their liquidity needs obviously are very important. But yeah, you want to make sure that someone is taking into account their own specific situation, cause everyone’s needs are going to be different.

[00:11:17] Atty. James Jones: Let’s talk a little bit more about that risk mitigation. So, there’s all these unexpected events, right? Like in my world, that’s what we’re talking about all the time is worst case scenario is what happens if you have you’re incapacitated or if you die early or you die too old like all those kinds of things, right?

[00:11:33] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah.

[00:11:34] Atty. James Jones: So, tell me about how that you do mitigate those risks of those unexpected things that might happen in someone and provide that safety net maybe for some of these unforeseen circumstances that come up.

[00:11:45] Melissa Cournyer: Right. Yeah. So, risk is a big deal because you want to make sure that number one, the folks are getting the growth of the market. When we look back historically at the S and P. The S and P is averaged 10 percent a year in growth.

[00:11:59] [00:12:00] So we can’t just say, Hey, we’re not going to be involved in the market at all. Right? You can’t turn down 10% a year, but yet we can’t have all of our assets in the market either, the closer that we get to retirement.

[00:12:12] So, the way that we really talk about risk is hey, what is this portfolio going to look like on the downside if something does happen? And what are we comfortable? Not that anyone ever wants to lose money but what are we comfortable putting in play if the market were to go down and what does that look like risk wise? How does that affect the bottom line?

[00:12:32] And we have incredible software, incredible planning tools that allows us to be able to predict that and the end game on what someone is wanting to have at any certain year in their lifespan, but also again what that risk does to it?

[00:12:47] What the market if the market’s having a bad year, what does that actually look like? How are we still going to drive income off of that portfolio in retirement during that time?

[00:12:56] Atty. James Jones: Yeah, no, I think that’s that’s super valuable. [00:13:00] You know, because the market is so complex, it’s a volatile place sometimes lately, right? Since ’08, 09 we’re doing really great, right? An average, historically, we’re doing about 10% on the S and P 500, which is really, you’re not going to beat that most places, but

[00:13:15] Melissa Cournyer: No.

[00:13:16] Atty. James Jones: But your expertise. So tell us how that market expertise that you have, because I always think, well, I can make my own size. I’m going to buy a service and I’m going to pick my own stocks based on those recommendations that are sort of, you know, they’re not sort of holistic. They’re kind of this one looks like it’s a good one, but it doesn’t consider this stuff.

[00:13:33] You know, tell us how that like holistic approach based on your market expertise contributes to helping people make informed decisions and really optimizing their strategy for their investment plan.

[00:13:48] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah during different times of a market cycle. So, you’ve got different sectors that perform better than others, right? So take, for instance, right now we’re in a late stage four sector [00:14:00] and there are certain things that are going to perform better, certain sectors or certain asset classes that are going to perform better than others.

[00:14:08] You know, and so it really just, we need to stay in line with what we think is going to perform during this time in the market, not just, Hey, this has performed really well over the time period. Well, if that’s not something that is going to perform in this style of market, then we’re not going to gravitate towards that.

[00:14:26] Obviously there’s a time and a place to be invested in certain things, but depending on what the market’s doing. If we’re going into recession, if we’re in a recession, right? There are certain avenues that are going to be better performing or lesser performing.

[00:14:38] So, you know, and again, that’s kind of tying it back into risk level and longevity too. It just depends on the longevity of the plan that we’re looking at, right? If someone is young and they’re in their thirties and got a lot of working years ahead of them, then we have a lot of different avenues that we can go to be able to plan for that longevity.

[00:14:56] And of course, we’re going to be a lot more growth [00:15:00] oriented than someone that’s coming up on retirement or getting ready for retirement. So, they’re not going to look the same in their portfolio structure cause they don’t have the same risk structure yet either.

[00:15:12] And so, it just makes sense that different avenues are going to perform with different strengths, depending on what type of market that we’re performing in.

[00:15:20] Obviously we take into account, geopolitical factors, right? You know, interest rates, just like we talked about and different in hot topics that are happening right now. Clearly right now we’re in an election year.

[00:15:34] So, that does change a lot of the investment strategy that we have. And so, there are just those things that we take into account that maybe the average investor is not necessarily going to take into account

[00:15:46] Atty. James Jones: Right. Yeah. And that sort of plays into the customized kind of plans that you can create for people based on their tolerances and their age and their goals and how they want to retire and all [00:16:00] those kinds of things. Right?

[00:16:00] Melissa Cournyer: Absolutely. So, when we look at someone’s specific situation, we get a full scope of what they have, we get assets liabilities. What they want retirement to look like, you know, structure as far as maybe they want to travel when they’re retired, or maybe they’re going to buy another house or whatever that may be, or maybe they’re going to downsize, right?

[00:16:21] So, we take all that into account and so we can really make the plan, whatever their plan is or whatever they want their plan to be. We can put that in the structure of the plan so that there are no surprises.

[00:16:33] So that it’s really just, Hey, we structure this plan and then we follow the plan. And then I hold my clients accountable, right?

[00:16:39] And we meet and we talk about, Hey, how is this plan going? How do we feel? Right? If we’re hitting all of these guidelines, then this is probably going to be the end result.

[00:16:49] Atty. James Jones: Yeah. And I think that has a lot to do, the name of this podcast is legacy talk. And so, we talk a lot about legacy, we were like, what are we teaching our kids? What are we showing our friends or our [00:17:00] family, like who are we as far as people?

[00:17:02] So, I would think that same kind of thing comes into play with your, in your industry, like you have to help people behavioral wise, cause emotions can be a significant factor. It’s like you lose money or you make money and you know, we make money. I’m putting more money in that stock. Or if I lose money, I’m like, I got to get it out of here.

[00:17:20] So how does your role help people sort of coach them as far as understanding the fluctuations and then making good like habits as far as their financial future goes.

[00:17:32] Nice.

[00:17:33] Melissa Cournyer: That’s a big one James, emotions are a big part of money, right? People love money, they look at money obviously, as kind of a symbol of it, you know, and so that’s a big thing to keep that in check with folks. We want to make sure that we’re not making emotional decisions. It’s, Hey, we’re staying diversified in the meantime, we’re staying with the plan.

[00:17:52] That’s why we do the plan to begin with, that’s one of the first things we talk about is this plan that we create, but also again, the risk. Right? No one [00:18:00] wants to lose money, but if we’re okay, having some amount of risk in the portfolio, we’re not throwing out the baby with the bath water and changing the whole plan.

[00:18:08] In the meantime, if the market happens to be a little volatile or going down, right, so it’s sticking with the plan and not just watching the stocks in the red, right.

[00:18:18] So any particular sector can have a bad day, any stock position can have a bad day. So it’s not making those kind of snap knee jerk decisions, that really evens out our clients, not saying that if a client called in, we wouldn’t be able to make some changes if necessary.

[00:18:36] But I find that when we talk about how to allocate the portfolio, when I first get together with a client and we really talk about risk, if we stay within that risk factor and I remind them, Hey, the market’s down right now, but remember, this is your portfolio. It’s going to, or it could be down XML and we’ve agreed on that.

[00:18:54] They tend to really stick with the plan. I don’t have a lot of folks coming back, making really emotional decisions [00:19:00] if they know it’s within the guidelines of the plan that we’ve laid out.

[00:19:03] Atty. James Jones: Sure that’s a significant change for some people that aren’t familiar with the way that the market works and don’t understand that we’re not going to lose everything if we don’t sell our stocks when they’re down, you know, like that kind of thing.

[00:19:15] Yeah, so I’m sure like that’s where it’s sort of the education comes in as far as you’re guiding them and educating them about these things.

[00:19:24] You know, different products, different strategies, different techniques to take advantage of the market and another option opportunities in the investment world.

[00:19:34] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah. And I think that’s a big part, you know, we’ve worked together for quite a number of years and you see me educate clients. Everyone’s at a different level when they first come in to see me. And so, I really gauge off of how involved they want to be you know, what education level they want. I think it’s great because that holds everyone accountable. Right?

[00:19:51] So, if I teach a client just the basics, how to read their statement, what this looks like, how to read the 10 99 that comes out. So, I find that [00:20:00] that keeps everyone engaged and I think that that’s really important because then you don’t have those surprises. You don’t have those emotional phone calls or snap decisions when something happens, right?

[00:20:09] Because we can’t control the market, I don’t know what the market’s going to do from day to day. But what we can control is the plan and the education and I think if everyone is that a good point in their education and they know what they’re invested in and just a general why, then that takes away a lot of that, those questions when something comes up or when the market has a bad day.

[00:20:31] So I believe education is extremely important because of that.

[00:20:35] Atty. James Jones: Yeah. No, I think it’s critical too. I just did an episode. I think it’s, it actually might’ve been the most recently published episode, which is probably a couple of weeks from ago from today, but it was like there’s a big barrier in estate planning is I don’t know enough to do it. Right.?

[00:20:51] And so, one of the reasons I do a podcast like this is education wise. And one of the reasons we talk to people and meet with people right in both of our worlds is to tell them there’s these options and [00:21:00] that we’re the experts. And, if they work with us typically we’re going to give them the correct advice, right? And we’re going to do our best to advise them because it’s in our best interest to advise them properly, right?

[00:21:10] And to pick the best strategies, just like when you go to the doctor or something and you don’t ask him, you need to have open heart surgery and they don’t ask the doctor, well, let me study this out and I’m going to just make sure that you’re going to do the right technique, right? Or I’m going to understand every little stitch and every little cut.

[00:21:28] Like, that’s just not how it is in the same, I think the same thing applies to people like us in the financial and legal world, that there’s a lot of information out there for us. Right? But for people to look at, but that doesn’t mean that an expert isn’t essential, I think so.

[00:21:43] Melissa Cournyer: Right. And in our industry, both of our industries, you can jump online and you can Google a lot of stuff, right? But that, again, it doesn’t mean that it’s correct, it doesn’t mean that it pertains to you and your situation, right? Everyone’s going to be different. So, we’ve both seen it where we’ll have folks try and do their own planning.

[00:21:59] And [00:22:00] it just doesn’t turn out right because it’s not, maybe not meant for them, or it’s, sometimes too simplistic for what they have going or it’s just not right for their situation. So, I think that’s what leaving it to professionals and the experts looks like right is so that we can really weed through all that and kind of cut through the noise and make sure that what the planning that we’re doing actually pertains to our client.

[00:22:23] And we do know a lot of obviously extra things that someone that’s just googling it is not going to know, right? Because we’re trained in that, so there’s a lot of things that we can bring up. A lot of extra type of planning techniques that we can use that maybe someone wouldn’t have thought about.

[00:22:38] Atty. James Jones: No, exactly. That’s what we get after 20 years or so for doing this kind of work. So, let’s talk a little bit about retirement readiness. I’m sure you get a lot of clients who, like the typical Boeing employee or something like that that has worked at Boeing for 20 or 30 years and they’ve got their 401k plan, that’s pretty, you know, it’s got a lot [00:23:00] of money in it.

[00:23:01] But it’s been in that Boeing 401k and they’re thinking about retiring. They’ve got a house with equity, they might have a little bit of money dabbling here and there but they really haven’t had a cohesive retirement plan.

[00:23:13] How is that person going to be benefited by helping or being helped by a professional like you?

[00:23:21] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah. And Boeing itself does a really good job providing to their members a lot of services, but they’re still very limited, right? And it’s kind of cookie cutter what they actually provide.

[00:23:31] So, I would say on the outside, you know, we’re able to provide a lot more meaningful information just because that’s part of the services that we do, we don’t just kind of push the button and do asset allocation work. We’re actually looking at okay, tax structure, right? What does that look like in retirement? What does obviously those dollars mean 15, 20 years down the road, like we kind of talked about before, what does inflation due to that?

[00:23:58] Is my [00:24:00] portfolio going to keep up? What’s positioned right now in asset allocation? Does that look good five years from now? Maybe again, it’s a different geopolitical situation globally. Maybe international is or isn’t performing well.

[00:24:11] Do we want to be invested in certain things? Do I have that risk level? So, I think that’s a lot of stuff that those company plans really don’t address, right? They just look at asset allocation and if someone realistically is on the right track or if they have enough money, but there are so many more questions other than do I have enough money right now at this very given point, right?

[00:24:33] It’s more of, do I have enough money 15, 20 years down the road? And to your point too, when we’re looking at planning, right? A lot of folks do want to leave a legacy. To their family members, to kids, to grandkids. That’s not covered at all in, in that type of planning, the best structure on how to leave that legacy, right?

[00:24:51] That’s not covered at all in company retirement type planning and so the most tax efficient way to do that, the easiest way to do that. [00:25:00] We address all of that type of planning as well.

[00:25:03] Atty. James Jones: Right. And that brings up this dreaded word, right? Taxes, right? In my world, it’s mostly estate taxes that we’re dealing with, but some trust taxes and we’re trying to keep people under the estate tax exemption or plan so they don’t have to pay their estate taxes.

[00:25:18] Tell us a little bit about like how you help plan and implement strategies to prevent and take account for taxes because we’re all paying taxes one way or another.

[00:25:28] How do you strategize in that way with your clients?

[00:25:32] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah, everyone has heard the adage, it’s not what you make, it’s what you keep right? And everyone is for paying their fair share of taxes, but most of my clients, don’t see the reason to pay more than that.

[00:25:45] So, the planning that we do is focused around making sure obviously they pay their fair share of taxes, but it’s also focused around how to be the most tax efficient in retirement and how to pull that money out that they’ve saved all these years during their [00:26:00] working years, during their accumulation phase, how to pull all of that money out the most efficiently so that they could possibly leave a legacy down the line, or they can take that extra trip here and there. So, I think that’s a big part, again it’s not what you make, it’s what you keep.

[00:26:14] And so, a lot of the planning tools that we use really focus and center around that.

[00:26:19] Atty. James Jones: Now it’s critical because you hear these horror stories of people that don’t understand individual retirement accounts and they say, well, I’ve got a million dollars in that account and I’m going to take it out, I’m going to put it somewhere else.

[00:26:30] And they don’t realize, well, they’re going to get taxed, they’re going to get penalized maybe, it’s just like, there’s these huge pitfalls that they could.

[00:26:38] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah. Unfortunately, we see it all the time where someone and you know, whoever they’re working with at the work plan or whatever it may be is not advising them or maybe they just do it on their own. Right?

[00:26:52] And they just take it out and run to the bank and throw it in there. So you know, you could lose about 37%, right off the [00:27:00] bat immediately by doing that.

[00:27:01] Clearly that’s a really bad mistake. So, I mean, that’s a pretty basic one, but we obviously address rollovers, but again, it’s more of in retirement. Okay. We’re at a certain tax threshold. What do our pensions look like? What does social security look like?

[00:27:15] Can we do any other types of planning to make sure that maybe these buckets of money aren’t getting taxed at a similar way or what buckets of money are we drawing from in retirement so that the tax burden is less, right? A lot of my clients are, also charitably inclined.

[00:27:31] So, we can leave to different charities and there’s different gifting strategies that we can utilize to make sure that if we’re gifting, that it really benefits tax wise as well.

[00:27:43] Atty. James Jones: Right. Yeah, we talk about that a lot too, the gifting and the philanthropic goals that people have, right? If you don’t plan your legacy, there’s one less person giving to that organization that you love, right? And that’s something that we can build into our plans on both sides, for sure.

[00:27:58] Well, Melissa, it’s [00:28:00] been super educational to have you on. We’ve really learned a lot, I hope, and I think the people that listen to the podcast are really going to benefit from having you on today’s episode. So really, thank you for being here today.

[00:28:11] Before you go, any parting words or wisdom that you’d want to give to the members or listeners here of Legacy Talk?

[00:28:19] Melissa Cournyer: Yeah, I think the big thing that I talk to my clients about is having a strong team around them in retirement or pre retirement. In my world that means, a good financial planner, a good attorney that’s going to address the state planning and tax issues, a good CPA.

[00:28:35] So, having all of your professionals work as a team, I feel like is extremely important so that everyone’s on the same page, working towards the same goal of achieving whatever that client wants to achieve.

[00:28:46] So, I think that’s really important is having a strong team around you.

[00:28:51] Atty. James Jones: Yeah, I agree totally. That’s super important. And something we talk about here on Legacy Talk too is the team is essential and that everybody knows what’s happening on all [00:29:00] aspects. Oftentimes we’ll get clients that they have advisors that don’t want to talk to the lawyer or lawyers that don’t want to talk to the advisor or CPAs or whatever.

[00:29:08] So, it’s really nice to have a team approach and that’s why I really like working with you and sort of having everything right in the open on the same page.

[00:29:17] So anyway, Melissa, thanks again for being on today’s episode. We’ll talk to you soon.

[00:29:21] Well, that was great having Melissa on today. It’s nice to have a guest and not have to talk the whole time. That’s really nice and so thanks again to Melissa Cournyer, for being on our show today.

[00:29:32] So, we always have a story time, even on a interview question, we have a story time because this story connects and syncs with what we just talked about with Melissa. So, this story is involves a family named Anderson and this family was old school, right? They had tons of stock and they had shares that they had owned since like the fifties, right?

[00:29:55] Older couple, they have acquired shares over years and years and they did their own thing and they were [00:30:00] buying shares of stock at the time when once upon a time when you bought a share of stock, they handed you a stock certificate and that’s a piece of paper that says you own one share or 10 shares or a hundred shares of this stock, right?

[00:30:13] So, I don’t know, name a stock, the old stock, general electric, I don’t know. Is that an old one? Ford? I don’t know. International business machines, maybe, I don’t know.

[00:30:23] Anyway, so they had tons of stock, right? Millions of dollars in stock, but it turned out every one of these stocks was in certificate form.

[00:30:32] So we had briefcases and folders and expando files full of stock certificates. And many of these companies had merged with others, they were sold, right? But they almost all still existed in one form or another. It might just be as a piece of stock in another company.

[00:30:49] And so, the downside for this couple, the Andersons, is they didn’t have a financial advisor during their lifetime sort of converting these paper shares into, or certificated [00:31:00] shares, into electronic shares with a brokerage account, right?

[00:31:03] So, when Mr. Anderson died, we had a problem on our hands and that’s when I met Mrs. Anderson. She, her husband had passed, he was in his 80s, and they had all these shares, right? They had so many stock certificates from companies that existed like the, Ma Bell merger with AT& T and Verizon and all these companies.

[00:31:26] These shares basically were all over the place, we had to sort of track them all down. And these kinds of shares were held with a holding company, basically like a clearing house. And so, there was a huge amount of time that we had to expend to get these shares transferred over from the clearing house into Mrs. Anderson’s name.

[00:31:48] And then from there, actually, in this case, I worked with Melissa to get those shares into a brokerage account. So they’re an electronic form, so we don’t have to worry about the certificates anymore. And [00:32:00] so, the process with these stock certificates was we’d have to go get medallion signature guarantees from the bank.

[00:32:07] And those aren’t easy to come by because there’s aren’t very many people authorized to do that. And we had to go through probate in order to have Mrs. Anderson appointed, in order for her to transfer those stock certificates to herself, and because they had no financial advisor, like I said, we had to go multiple times to the bank. We had to do miles and miles of paperwork, tons of paperwork to get this done.

[00:32:30] And so, if they had used a financial advisor, they would have recognized early on, Hey, take those certificated shares and let’s convert them into something that’s easier to deal with so that you don’t lose them one, right? You don’t lose them if they burn down in a fire or something those there go the shares, right? That’s a problem.

[00:32:51] So it’s much harder to put the pieces together when you lose the certificate. You probably would have been able to, but it’s much more difficult. I’m not a financial advisor, but I would think you’d have to dig [00:33:00] up through a lot of hoops.

[00:33:00] So, the moral of that story is how an effective financial plan would have helped them. Have they been working with an advisor that would have made their process so much easier as far as dealing with those certificates making sure that the shares were all in a central place, so they didn’t have to go to all these different clearinghouses to trade or sell or buy more, it’s all under one window.

[00:33:24] And that’s one of the benefits of having an advisor, they’ve got significant technologies to help us analyze and review and look at our plans with them. So, I really like working with financial advisors and Melissa in particular and what she said as well as far as the team approach is so important with regard to using a financial advisor and attorney and a CPA that work together and know what the others are doing.

[00:33:48] And so, that’s another benefit because like I mentioned, we have clients, I have clients who have advisors and attorneys and CPAs that never even know about each other. And so, that’s not the [00:34:00] best way to approach things. And so, I really try to work collaboratively with other professionals and sculpting these estate plans.

[00:34:07] And making sure that what we put in place doesn’t trigger something that might be bad on another side. And so, it’s important to have that holistic approach, I believe.

[00:34:15] So, it’s important to use a financial advisor, I definitely recommend it. And that’s just one of the benefits that I mentioned this story with the Andersons.

[00:34:23] So, that’s it for today’s episode. I’d like to thank again, Melissa Cournyer, Convergent Wealth and having her on this show.

[00:34:34] And I’d like to thank you for listening to today’s episode of Legacy Talk. If you liked today’s episode and would like to learn more, please like, and subscribe for more great content.

[00:34:45] I’ve been your host, James Jones to your legacy.

[00:34:49] Narrator: Thank you for listening to the Legacy Talk podcast by attorney James A. Jones. If you found today’s episode helpful, we ask that you like and follow us on all major [00:35:00] platforms so you don’t miss out on the latest episode.

[00:35:03] If you have questions for Attorney Jones, reach out at info@joneslegacylaw.com or visit our website at JonesLegacyLaw.com

[00:35:12] Join us again next week for another episode of the Legacy Talk podcast.

In this episode of The Legacy Talk Podcast, host James A. Jones is joined by Melissa Cournyer, a financial advisor from Convergent Wealth Partners in Gig Harbor, Washington. With over 19 years of experience in the financial services industry, Melissa brings valuable insights into the role of a financial advisor and the benefits they can provide in estate planning and overall financial health.

Body:
The discussion revolves around the importance of having a comprehensive team of professionals, including financial planners and estate planning attorneys, to ensure a well-rounded approach to financial and estate planning. While estate planning attorneys focus on the legal aspects of protecting assets and creating estate plans, financial advisors play a crucial role in enhancing financial literacy, planning for retirement, and preserving wealth.

Melissa emphasizes that many people believe they can handle their finances independently, but working with a financial advisor can provide valuable expertise and save time. Financial advisors have the knowledge and experience to create customized plans based on individual goals, risk tolerance, and financial situation. They can also conduct financial health checks or evaluations to determine the current state of a person’s finances and identify areas that may need improvement.

One common mistake people make when setting financial goals is not taking into account longevity and the impact of inflation. Melissa highlights the importance of considering one’s desired lifestyle in retirement, estimating future expenses, and planning for potential healthcare costs. Financial advisors can help individuals navigate market fluctuations, adjust investment strategies, and ensure they have enough funds to support their retirement goals.

The conversation also touches on the emotional aspects of financial planning, as emotions can often influence financial decisions. Melissa emphasizes the need for a disciplined approach, sticking to the established plan, and avoiding knee-jerk reactions to market fluctuations. Education plays a crucial role in helping clients understand their investments, read financial statements, and make informed decisions.

The discussion concludes with a focus on retirement readiness and the benefits of working with a financial advisor, especially for individuals with complex financial portfolios. Financial advisors can provide guidance on tax-efficient strategies, retirement income planning, and legacy planning. By working with a financial advisor, individuals can optimize their investment strategies, minimize tax liabilities, and ensure they leave a lasting legacy for their loved ones.

Conclusion:
Working with a financial planner and an estate planning attorney is essential for comprehensive financial and estate planning. By leveraging the expertise of both professionals, individuals can create a solid financial foundation, plan for retirement, and protect their assets. Melissa Cournyer’s insights in this episode highlight the importance of having a strong team of professionals to guide individuals through the complexities of financial planning. To learn more about the role of financial planners and estate planning attorneys, listen to the full episode of The Legacy Talk Podcast.

Listen now to the full episode on [insert podcast platform] to gain valuable insights into financial planning and estate planning from Melissa Cournyer, a seasoned financial advisor. Don’t miss out on the opportunity to optimize your financial health and plan for a secure future.